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Pluto
Nov 19, 2015 7:07:13 GMT
Post by Kyra Benjamin on Nov 19, 2015 7:07:13 GMT
North No. 2 mentions a difference between the nightmares he has and those of Duncan; he says that Duncan‘s dream is not a nightmare. He says this in response to Duncan’s shouting that there are some things humans want to forget. Based on what North also says afterwards I think that where humans can force themselves to try and forget bad memories perhaps North cannot change himself in the same manner and simply has to endure the same horrific scenes replaying over and over again. However because of this North is able to make significant character growth in a way humans often keep themselves from doing. The ability to forget and block out bad memories allows people to continue living life without facing and overcoming problems, leaving them characteristically or emotionally stunted like in Duncan’s case. And sometimes they may be able to go on with their lives without problem or like in Duncan’s case it may create a wall they can’t find a way to climb because they’ve blocked out the cause. North experiencing war and being unable to forget the memory of it has given him direction in his desire to learn to play piano and has made him kind in the lengths he goes to to help Duncan overcome his own wall. He does more than I think any human might have done because in forgetting or being submersed in their own pain they keep from truly empathizing with others. This I think is what the difference is.
Question: What do you think North would have done once he learned to play piano? Or Do you think Duncan’s opinion is right that the sounds a machine creates will always be fake and not “real music”?
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Pluto
Nov 19, 2015 19:45:03 GMT
Post by qian lin on Nov 19, 2015 19:45:03 GMT
I think in the end of the story, the North,No.2 breaks his body to make the music. I think it is not that the machine can not make the music. It is the object who does not have feelings can not make music. Even though North No.2 is the robot, he has passion of the music and hope for the life. Even though he is physically machine, he has his own soul. I think he can make the music because he has his own feeling and judgement.
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Pluto
Nov 20, 2015 3:05:26 GMT
Post by Mina Kaneko on Nov 20, 2015 3:05:26 GMT
A question that's often raised in books or movies about artificial intelligence is the question of whether robots have actual emotional capabilities or whether they're merely programmed to replicate human emotional capabilities... (I was thinking of the movie Ex-Machina, for example, that revolves around this theme). Your question about whether a machine is capable of creating "real music" mirrors the same idea -- is music really music if played technically well? Or does it require something emotional, human, in order to be "real"? In the case of North No. 2, I felt like he was pretty convincingly traumatized by the war and eager to learn to play music, and this emotional capacity makes me think he would be able to create "real music" - something with "life" behind it. At the same time, we don't have enough context for these machines to really know how they operate... so I have a bit of doubt that perhaps I'm getting fooled... but I was charmed by North No. 2 as a character.
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Pluto
Nov 20, 2015 3:09:14 GMT
Post by Mina Kaneko on Nov 20, 2015 3:09:14 GMT
Oh, also! Lots of people are writing about the ending, which is relevant and important to my being convinced North No. 2 has feelings and complex emotions... if he did indeed "die," or sacrifice himself for Duncan, then it proves he's not a war-waging machine (and that he was truthful in no longer wanting to be that). But I suppose the ending is also open to interpretation... I'm still thinking about what exactly happened
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I Lam
New Member
Posts: 29 
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Post by I Lam on Nov 20, 2015 3:23:43 GMT
I cried, Kyra! What kind of sadistic ending was that!
My heavy emotions aside, I don't really agree with Duncan. Isn't music just music? If a robot can play it the exact same way, or even better, than an emotional human, what's really the difference, except for the fact that one was played by a machine made of flesh and another metal? That kind of statement is really just an arbitrary measure put in place to make sure that human music is always be considered superior. I mean really, I'm sure I can still be moved by music played by a robot. Duncan was just being close minded.
As for what North #2 would have done after learning to play the piano...well, I believe that he honestly just enjoyed the sound of the music, even if he didn't quite realize it himself. I think he would've gone on to help Duncan compose even better, new pieces of music, if only he'd had the chance. And when Duncan died, he might just move on to find employment in a place of music. But in the end, it's all speculation because North #2 is gone forever oh my god I cannot deal with this story
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Pluto
Nov 20, 2015 4:46:21 GMT
Post by Cindy Xia on Nov 20, 2015 4:46:21 GMT
I simply thought that North No. 2 wanted to learn the piano just so he could understand Duncan and his feelings more. Maybe because he saw how dedicated the composer was to the piano and how he was so intent on music that holds memories that the robot wants to be like him; a "human" with feelings. I agree with Qian that North No.2 wants a life of his own and by learning to play the piano, he is starting anew.
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